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Originally posted by millbot:

I would like some input from you guys & gals who do fast-finish long runs. This was my first planned attempt at this kind of workout. I decided to try the Pfitz method. Based on my HM pace of 7:30/mi, I did:

1-4 warmup

5-11 HM pace + 20% (9:00)

12-15 HM pace + 10% (8:15)

16 cool down

Here are my questions.

Pfitz's prescribed paces are based on MP, but I am training for half marathons. Is it appropriate to substitute HM pace + 20% (or +10%)?

McMillan's fast-finish long runs seem like harder workouts which approximate the race experience better, and he recommends doing them every other week instead of weekly as (I believe) Pfitz does. Any experience with these?

Skip, I know you described how you do these workouts, but I wasn't taking notes. Could you post that info again, pretty please?

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First let me say I am no expert though I had good success with applying some of the techniques for fast-finish training in both the HM (1:27 in Phx last Jan) and Marathon (3:04 VCM in May) which isn’t bad for age 50+. Your results may vary!

 

As millbot indicates, there are several different ways to do these. Here are some I have used:

 

1. Race-Pace Miles.

On these, the objective is to run miles at target race pace (not faster, not slower). Similar to the Pfitz method mentioned above and used most often on Long Runs (16+ miles). Call it Pfitz on caffeine. You start easy and get warmed up (1 to 2 miles for me), then do the bulk of the run at the McMillan suggested LR pace (millbot, that would be ~9:00p for you, based on a target 7:30p for the HM race). Then as I get closer to race day, I start running the later miles at goal race pace. Start with just a few miles then build gradually to as much as you can handle – up to 75% or so of race distance. Example for a HM Goal Time of 1:38 (7:30p):

 

Early in the training cycle: 10 miles total distance =1 mile easy warm up, 4 at 9:00p, 2 picking it up to race pace (so one at 8:30p and one at 8:00p), then 2 at 7:30p, finally 1 mile cooldown.

 

Late in the cycle: 16 miles total, = 2 miles easy warm up, 3 at 9:00p, 2 picking it up to race pace (so one at 8:30p and one at 8:00p), then 8 at 7:30p the HM goal pace, finally 1 mile cooldown.

 

As mcsolar pointed out, these get you used to running race pace when you are already tired. He and I both are strong believers in over-distance training for the HM, BTW.

 

2. True Fast Finish.

These are like McMillan describes in the link millbot posted. The difference here is the last 2 or 3 miles (not counting the cooldown) are run at FASTER than goal race pace. For marathon training, these last miles are run at 15K pace, but for Half Marathon training they need to be faster – like 10K race pace.

So 16 miles total, = 2 miles easy warm up, 8 at 9:00p, 3 picking it up to 10K race pace (so one at 8:30p, one at 8:00p and one at 7:30p), then 2 at 7:00p 10K pace equal to your goal HM pace, finally 1 mile cooldown.

 

Note that the average pace for these last 5 miles is just about your goal HM pace.

 

These allow you to experience and learn to deal with Lactate Threshold at about the same time you run out of ready energy in your legs i.e. at Glycogen Depletion – just like you’ll want to do when you kick to the finish on that HM and nail the PR. This is a hard workout and I wouldn’t suggest doing it too often at the Long Run distance.

 

These are really just ways to combine Progression Runs into your Long Run. McMillan has info on his website under Progression Runs here. I have found progression training to be a tremendous benefit – I do a lot of it. Plus it’s a good excuse to allow me to wimp-out on track workouts.

Hope that helps.

Skip