posted Nov-02-2007 08:57 PM            

1. Increase your weekly mileage to build endurance. You can run a marathon on low mileage, but if you want to have better performance, you need to increase your mileage. I managed (not easily) to build my weekly mileage at peak to 60+ miles per week, probably averaging 45-50 miles overall. This was an increase of 20-25% versus previous marathons and I think this kind of mileage helped me improve my time and performance. I certainly felt that I was in better condition. However, the key is running the majority of this mileage at “easy pace” to avoid injury and stress on the body.

2. Know your training paces. Don’t “win” all your training runs. The biggest learning I had was to run at paces that are based on your current conditioning. I used Daniel’s VDOT system to determine pacing for my interval, tempo and easy runs. My easy-paced runs this season were 30-45 seconds slower than any other easy run that I’ve done in the past. I was skeptical at first and it felt really slow and awkward, but the end result proved it has merit, at least for me. My pacing for the various runs actually increased during the summer as my race results indicated improved conditioning and increased my VDOT rating.

3. Speed work twice a week at the right pace is critical. One interval (VO2Max) workout and one tempo (lactate threshold) run per week helped increase endurance needed later in the marathon. I don’t think there’s a need to do a lot of speed work. Controlled paced workouts deliver what you need. They were not overly difficult in hindsight – good tough workouts, but manageable. Most of my training miles (~85-90%) were at “easy pace”.

4. You can run a decent marathon with only a few long training runs. This will test conventional wisdom. I only completed two long runs in my training plan – both about 18 miles, with 60-70% of these miles at MP. One was to be a 20-miler, but humidity got the best of me. For me, the key was total weekly mileage – I didn’t do the long runs (a fair number of MLRs though), but my average weekly mileage was okay at 60+miles at peak. I must admit I was really skeptical, but again, race day proved it worked out okay.

5. Find your marathon pace in training and learn what it “feels” like. I didn’t do a lot of marathon pace training runs, but when I did, I made a conscious effort to “feel” what the pace was like. At first, I felt like ‘how can I run this for 26.2’, but as the conditioning improved, it became easier. Having said this, my marathon paced miles (I considered them speed work) were really minimal – maybe 3-4 runs at most.

6. Get to the starting line injury free and relaxed. This is the most prepared I’ve been for a race. No anxiety over what to eat, what to wear, last minute rushing around, etc., etc. I started the race relaxed, prepared to accept anything that happened (Garmin not working, losing gels, crowded running, whatever…). It made all the difference. I was looking forward to “racing”. Small nuisances seem to sap energy.

7. Race day hydration and nutrition is critical. I took gels at 0, 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20 (½) miles, plus sips of Gatorade at every mile. I find it difficult to take in liquids/gels during the later stages of a race, so taking it in earlier seemed to work pretty well for me.

8. Go out easy for the first 2-3 miles, maybe 15-30 seconds under marathon pace. Find you legs, get your HR in line and then ease into marathon pace. If you go out too fast, you’re looking for trouble in the later stages.

9. Know you marathon pace and stick to it. Don’t try and bank time. Regardless of how great you feel, stick to your pace through those first 20 miles. If you have anything left, go for it then. I was amazed at how relieved and relaxed I felt scaling back 10-15 seconds at times when I found myself running too fast.

10. Plan you strategy for the last 6 miles carefully. Some people seem to sail through these miles. I have always had problems with the mental side of things and ended up running/walking. This year, I had some friends run me in the last 6 miles. I also dedicated these miles to special people. Maybe I was in better condition, but these two things really seemed to help. I felt like walking, but didn’t.

11. Train smart. Hard days followed by easy days. Resist the urge to run faster even though you feel like it. Follow your plan. Listen to your body.

12. Share your goals with someone else. I have to admit that a lot of my friends knew what I was trying to achieve (expectations were high!). Yes, this put pressure on me to deliver, but it’s really a good thing if you’ve done the training. I did enjoy the experience. I felt I trained well, and as far as I was concerned, I had already “won”. I had never been in better shape in my life (at least that I could remember!).

I trained significantly different for this marathon than previous ones. The facts are that I ran a sub-4 hour marathon for the first time (3:46:40) and completed it from start to finish without stopping. I’m sure there were many things contributing to these results, including a great day, but the net, net is that it has been a great learning experience. Take what you want from this and discard the rest. Be sure to add what you've learned. Thanks for reading.
PJ

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posted Nov-02-2007 09:26 PM               

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Remember rule #6

read my running blog
My User Profile
My running log

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posted Nov-02-2007 09:37 PM               

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posted Nov-02-2007 09:38 PM               

A little background - I'm a bigger runner who has run 1/2 marathons from 1:49 - 1:53 and a 5K in the low 24 minutes. Somehow every time I get to a marathon, I struggle with the last 6 miles. I have went as far as 23 miles with a sub 4 hour pace, and hit the wall.

There's a ton of wisdom in this post, I saved it to a MS word document and saved it on my desktop.

Thank You.

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posted Nov-03-2007 03:17 AM               

It's all about knowing yourself, learning from others, and then adapting.

Thanks again.

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vista129

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posted Nov-03-2007 03:56 AM               

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SteveP

My User Profile

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posted Nov-03-2007 05:53 AM               

Being 61 years old, I think that for myself I'd be looking at injuries for certain with high-mileage training. I've been looking at Hal Higdon's "Senior" training schedule that lets you run just 3 times a week over 8 weeks (but recommends strong cross-training, such as the cycling that I do). His plan also assumes that being a "senior runner" means that you are experienced and keep yourself in good running condition, so the long runs start right out at 10-12 miles.

Anyway, I'm going to print out your post and keep it in my training file. Thanks again!

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- Runnin' in Rochester

Rochrunner

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posted Nov-03-2007 06:26 AM            

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posted Nov-03-2007 07:02 AM            

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posted Nov-03-2007 10:34 AM            

Please put it in the wiki.

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Mustang Sally
Boomers and Beyond wiki

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posted Nov-03-2007 10:37 AM            

I wish more folks would take the time to reflect--even briefly--on lessons learned in their RR's.

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posted Nov-03-2007 11:15 AM               

--Robin

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posted Nov-03-2007 11:21 AM               

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"If you see a man running up a mountain trail in Montana with a fly pole attached to his back, you are probably lost. LDD

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posted Nov-03-2007 02:25 PM            

But, it's obviously worked for you, and it's super you've figured out what does. (I'm still working on it after 12 marathons. )

[This message has been edited by Soundrunner1012 (edited Nov-03-2007).]

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posted Nov-03-2007 03:21 PM            

jjj

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posted Nov-04-2007 06:10 AM            

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posted Nov-05-2007 08:19 AM               

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Sue

posted Nov-06-2007 04:20 PM               

As to speedwork, you seem to contradict yourself. On the one hand you say 2 a week, an Interval and a tempo, but then you say you don't need to do a lot of speedwork. Twice a week is an awful lot, and a lot more than I would do (and I would do almost no intervals because I don't use that system in a marathon, although I would do repeats).

While there are those who say you don't need much in the way of long runs, two at 18 seems very low. I did 3 20 milers last year and felt it wasn't enough. Is it 3-4 miles at MP or 3-4 runs at MP?

That's a lot of gels. Each person is different, so I think you want to experiment. For me, I took them every 45 minutes or so, after doing that in training. But I agree on the hydration and Gatorade (if you've tried it in training).

Go out at MP or slower than MP? But don't try to bank miles, and go out slower than you feel is easy.

Having people pace you home? It's illegal.

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posted Nov-06-2007 04:51 PM            

Thanks for your reply, Joe ...much appreciated. I'm no expert either and I guess my comments are all relative. I'm 57 ... this was my 7th marathon. The best time I posted prior to this was 4:00:38, so I'm thinking the 3:46 was pretty good improvement for me, at least. If you're sub-3, you're obviously in a different class and some of this might not apply to you.

Re speedwork, two sessions per week in fact may be a lot, but it's just my perspective. The intervals built to a max of 5 x 5min with full recovery in between. Tempo runs max out at 40 mins. We started doing speedwork about 12 weeks out. Never having done speedwork like this before, I would have thought I'd be doing more ...but that's just lack of knowledge on my part I suspect. I thought the 2x per week was just right, also given the fact that the rest of the weekly miles for the most part were easy (few MP miles).

You may well be right about long runs. I too felt 2 x18 mi was light. My point was that the 60 mpw may have offset the lack of long runs and allowed me to finish well (imo).

I did 3-4 runs with MP miles. The 2 x 18-milers had 12 and 14 MP miles in them. The other two were limited to 5-6 MP miles. Again, I thought I would have done more than this, but I was following coaches' direction pretty closely.

I've always had trouble getting down gels if I waited until 10 miles or so before taking them. I find it easier to get them down if I start earlier. I seem to be able to tolerate Gatorade (blue) well, so take lots of it.

Marathon pacing was new ground for me. I didn't know whether I would be able to hold my MP pace or not over 26.2 (this pace was 30-40 sec faster than previous marathons). I started slightly slower than MP and only had to make up 30-40 secs or so, but consciously did not try and bank "time" through the first 20 miles. In previous marathons, I always ended up bonking at the end.

Having people pace me home ... sorry, didn't know it was illegal. Will have to avoid that in future.

Thanks again for your comments. Hope this helps clarify a little of what I was doing.
PJ

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posted Nov-06-2007 05:21 PM               

Very helpful. First, I don't distinguish among how fast different people go, because I think the training principles apply across the board, and I use, and have my team use, Daniels's formulas for appropriate paces.

As a stand-alone item, I think you need to add some background so readers can put it into perspective.

While I quibble here and there, in essence you're saying that you were able to perform well based upon this program, and that the program is heavier on speedwork than you expected and lighter on long-runs than you expected. You did it with a coach who obviously knows what she's doing. You did the one thing that I think is necessary, getting a goodly number of miles at marathon pace, and your point about getting used to marathon pace is very good.

You're at an age when you have to balance stressful workouts and recoveries, and you handled that well. Doing your easy runs easy is so important at our age. (I'm not quite as old as you are.)

Finally, I agree with Ribs that getting your mileage up was crucial. Indeed, you point to the three most important elements: overall mileage, Marathon Pace workouts, and extended tempo runs (my favorite is 2 X 20 with 4 minutes between). There's a debate about the length of long runs, and I hope to get regular 20s in before I start my base for NY 2008.

I think the only dispute I have is the Intervals, although if they're "full recovery" are they really Intervals in the Daniels' sense? Depending on pace, they're a hybrid of intervals, repeats, and tempos. As such, they are probably more beneficial for marathon training than a classic VO2max interval workout where you're constantly at an edge you never see in a marathon. My preference would be tempos on Tuesday and a semi-long run on Thursday as a means of getting the overall mileage up. And I'd try to start the speedwork 18 weeks out. Not too stressful at that point, but in addition to the physical it has the benefit of allowing you to go quickly after so many weeks of logging slow, easy miles, and is great mentally.

Congrats,
Joe

edited to add: Hansons is not big on long runs. They cap out at 16. I looked for an article where I'd seen that, but I found this pdf schedule, which maxes at 16.

[This message has been edited by jpgarland (edited Nov-06-2007).]

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posted Nov-06-2007 05:44 PM            

http://runningtimes.com/rt/articles/?id=4447

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posted Nov-06-2007 08:56 PM               

I guess it stands to reason that I would approve since there is so much about what you said that is consistent with the way I approach my training. A couple points that did raise my eyebrows a bit were the same ones that Joe mentioned, but when I thought about it I realized that I’d run my PR off only 2 long runs, an 18 and a 21. However, I had a lot in the mid range of 11-15 and a bunch of races between 10k-HM that gave me plenty of threshold miles. That being said, I still think it would probably be better to do at least a few more long runs, but it is certainly possible to run a good marathon with only a couple if you are doing all the other things you mentioned.

As far as the V02 max I don’t see a lot of need for it as preparation for the marathon either, but I think it was really a matter of the terminology you used. It sounds more like repetitions that you were doing than classic V02 max. The repetitions are more for efficiency than to develop V02. Also, I personally don’t think of tempo and marathon-paced runs as “speed” in the purist sense. I tend to refer to them as “quality” workouts rather than speed, and like you, have done 2 per week for long stretches without getting burned out or injured. To hammer 2 hard interval workouts a week while trying to keep up the mileage might be a different story.

I especially liked the points you made in “2. Know your training paces. Don’t win all your training runs.” That’s the reason that you were able to get in the 2 quality workouts each week even though the idea seemed daunting at first. “My easy-paced runs this season were 30-45 seconds slower than any other easy run that I’ve done in the past”. Yes! Even though I’ve been at it for many years, it wasn’t until the last couple years that I finally caught on to this. It is a real key to making everything fit together. With a long run and a couple good workouts it really isn’t necessary, or even desirable, to run very fast on the other days to race well.

Many other good points were made as well.